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Union Pacific Bridge Collapsed As Inspector Arrived

Union Pacific officials addressed public concerns during Monday night's meeting with Glenview and Northbrook residents.

A signal maintainer at the scene of the July 4 train derailment witnessed a rail abnormality before the accident and called for a Union Pacific inspector, who arrived "about simultaneously" as the bridge collapsed, said David Connell, vice president of engineering for Union Pacific.

The decision to cease freight traffic along the bridge could have been minutes away. However that was too late. The train derailed and the bridge collapsed, killing two people in a car below.

Read Patch's full coverage of the train derailment and bridge collapse .

Ten Union Pacific officials, along with representatives from the Federal Railroad Administration, the Illinois Department of Transportation and the Illinois Commerce Commission spoke to a crowd of more than 200 people during a public forum at Monday night.

Rail reps explained the current findings of their ongoing investigation, explained the history of that bridge and addressed questions raised by more than 50 people from Glenview and Northbrook. 

One resident expressed concern that officials said no one was hurt immediately after the bridge collapsed. 

"We had what we believed to be eyewitness accounts when the incident occured that there were no vehicles in the area," said Glenview Village Manager Todd Hileman, who was moderating the Q&A between residents and UP. "We actually had at least one, if not two residents make statements to our police department. ... Obviously they were not correct."

Other residents asked about the integrity of nearby bridges which also carry UP rails, especially the bridge over Willow Rd. 

"Since the accident, we have made another special inspection, jointly with the FRA, of all the bridges in the two villages on this particular railroad," Connell responded. "We found nothing of concern during those inspections, structurally speaking." 

"We were lucky here that this was coal," a woman said to the UP officials, referring to the cargo that freight trains carry in the area. "Do these trains also carry ethanol and other explosive items?"

"It carries all, mix manifest freight," said David Giandinoto, UP's general superintendent of operations in Chicago. "We're required by law. We have a common carry obligation to carry anything that tenders to us. As long as they tender to us in a safe vessel we're required to carry that."

Giandinoto told the crowd UP crews have finished cleaning debris in the area, confirmed that freight is moving along a temporary bridge in two directions at 10 miles per hour and crews have ceased 24-hour work on the site. 

"There has been some questions about train whistles," Giandinoto said, referring to the sound trains must make under federal regulation to alert anyone who may be on the track. "You were hearing those whistles during the evening, we have stopped 24-hour maintenance operations in that area, so you should only be hearing those during the day."

But several people said passing trains still make the noise at night. 

"You can tell us whatever you want to tell us, and whatever the federal rules and regulations are. ... Every night, two, three, four in the morning, those horns keep beeping," one man said to the UP officials. The crowd applauded him in response.

According to Connell, the rail kink UP officials think caused the derailment is rare, and he repeated that the company's investigation has found nothing structurally wrong with the bridge before it collapsed. 

"We believe that we had a heat-related anomaly to the track immediately preceding the bridge, mostly developing underneath the train as it was traveling over the bridge," Connell said. "Eventually one car, one set of wheels made it so far off the rails that the wheels literally fell off."

“When that happens, there’s very little one can do," he added. "We believe it most likely hit the far abutment of the bridge with a lot of force and then all the cars bunched up against that car.” 

The combined force of that collision and mass of cars that piled on the bridge brought down the viaduct that crushed . 

Victims' lawsuit

A few hours before Monday night's forum, , announced his request that National Transportation Safety Board investigate the derailment. He said outside the community forum that "the Federal Railroad Administration does not have the investigative resources of the NTSB." 

"With all due respect to the Union Pacific, which is a fine company," he added, "they have their own corporate interests at stake."

Clifford said the Lindners and the community are entitled to a third-party investigation of the derailment, "and let the chips fall where they may in that respect."

Clifford said members of the Lindner family were not in attendance on Monday.

Previous problems

Early in presentation, Connell addressed the history of that bridge and rails in the area, including a 2009 derailment and 2011 bridge maintenance project. 

“The derailment in 2009 actually occurred from a mechanical issue on a Canadian Pacific train, that the wheels didn’t want to turn … and the wheel came off the rail,” he said. “We saw no structural evidence that that bridge had anything to do with that derailment. That derailment actually occurred a couple hundred feet north of the bridge.” 

According to Connell, the 2011 bridge work was planned years ahead of time, "part of scheduled work that had nothing to do with either accident."

Reaction afterward

State Representative Daniel Biss attended the forum, though he did not address the crowd or UP officials. 

"This is an absolute catastrophe," he said on his way out, referring to the train derailment. "What's important is that we all recognize that on a system this big, things won't be perfect. So we put in place the safeguards so that when imperfections arise people don't die. That's the lesson we have to learn going forward."

Northbrook Village President Sandy Frum said she was pleased with the forum.

"[UP] brought in some people that can make decisions and I'm glad they were here to hear the questions and concerns," Frum said. 

Glenview's Village Manager Todd Hileman said he felt that UP shared what they could with the public. 

"I thought it was necessary to give the community the opportunity to vent and share their feelings and get some answers at least," he said. 

To stay up to date as this story unfolds, "like" either Northbrook Patch or Glenview Patch on Facebook.

Christian Hostetler July 18, 2012 at 08:33 PM
Yeah. I guess now we have to sideline every piece of machinery that has any rust on it because obviously it is not safe. {/sarcasm}
Christian Hostetler July 18, 2012 at 08:33 PM
Shit happens, as simple as that.
David Greenberg July 18, 2012 at 09:05 PM
A couple of other insights: * Moving all those materials by truck would require A LOT of trucks. You think traffic is bad now? HA! Move everything by truck, and you'll see some REALLY bad traffic. Not to mention the pollution. * Move all those materials by truck: Fuel prices will rise - A LOT. * Move all those materials by truck: Watch the cost of goods rise - A LOT because of all the attendant costs of truck transport being factored into the cost of the item. * Some items are too large to move by truck. They're too tall, too wide, too heavy... So you use a train to get it most of the way (if it's final destination isn't reachable by train), and then use a truck for the last leg of the journey. Ever see a bunch of streets shut down because something huge is moving down BOTH sides of the roadway? Yeah, real PITA eh? Imagine that every day if you remove trains from the equation. * Trains move people too. Just imagine if everyone had to drive because there was no Metra or CTA. You think parking is a costly nightmare now? Wow. Just wow, "you ain't seen nuthin' yet." Long story short - until we get the kinks worked out in the matter transporters, we've got what we've got. And trains are a part of what we've got. So we'll just have to do the best we can and improve when necessary.
David Greenberg July 18, 2012 at 09:14 PM
The ambient temperature and the length of time that the rails are exposed to it has a lot to do with it. Recall basic 8th grade physics class? Heat expands. Cold contracts. When it's hot, the rails EXPAND. If they're welded together at the ends, and held to the ties with spikes, then that metal's going to expand somehow. Sometimes it breaks the weld and moves to the left or right. Sometimes the weld doesn't break and the rail moves to the left or right. The metal spikes are set in wood, and have thousands of tons moving over them every day, so they move up/down, and side to side a bit (i.e., they wiggle). There's NO WAY they're going to not move. So they get a bit loose, and the rail has a bit of play to kink in. Even if you get a rail that's set on concrete, and the "spike" is set in concrete, then that rail still wants to expand, so it'll expand UPWARD, and then you have a bump. Sometimes you don't see the "kink", but there's a weakened spot, and when you put a thousand tons over it and pound it repeatedly with a mile long set of train cars, you derail. When things contract, the rails SHRINK, and welds can break because the ends pull away from each other. This leads to a gap that gets pounded by the wheels of the train cars, and causes deformities in the rails and/or wheels which can lead to a derailment. If you think about it, those tracks are an inch or two wide - that's how much play you have for the wheels before they go off the tracks.
PP July 18, 2012 at 11:04 PM
Obama campaign ads? Is this a "news" website?
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Keith July 19, 2012 at 04:21 AM
Greg, Thanks for your unpleasant display of emotion and your accusatory tone. You say I know nothing about the science of this failure. Well, please realize that you don't know me nor my background, so I suggest that you restrain yourself in the future. Please tell us, what qualifies you to tell everyone how it is? To clarify, I was saying that the thermal expansion of tracks is a predictable, calculable design parameter, unlike an earthquake or a terrorist bomb or vandalism, or perhaps a sink hole. I'm saying that yes, Greg, railroad engineers should be selective about design parameters. They should select all of them, if possible. But it's not possible, so we should at least design for those we can predict and calculate. I'm saying that if the calculations didn't work for continuous rail, given the expected moving-loads per axle, the number of axles, heat and speeds, then other methods should have been used. I'm saying that if the failure was due to heat, then the design was inadequate from the start.
Christian Hostetler July 19, 2012 at 04:42 AM
Keith, so what you are ready saying is that we need to redesign something that almost always works as intended just because one bad thing happened? Very rarely do sun kinks result derailments of any magnitude. Obviously its not a big enough problem that it becomes financially viable to fix. Also I think the prissy chicago attitude shows as people dont seem to understand just how dangerous the railroads are. Sometimes ship just happens, it sucks but it happens and at some point you have done enough and things are just going to happen. People seem to forget than a they are not in control.
Christian Hostetler July 19, 2012 at 04:55 AM
Obviously you dont understanding what a blessing continuous welded rail is. You obviously know nothing about the history of rail. So we should go back to jointed rail that costs exponentially more to maintain and in reality is more dangerous than CWR? This always happens though, one thing happens and then the general ptublic gets all over it making unreasonable demands but then it fades away. Ill leave the engineering work to the experts that have made railroads much much safer in the last 40 years.
Christian Hostetler July 19, 2012 at 05:00 AM
Mollie that is unrealistic. You can't predict sun kinks, no matter what keith may try and tell you. Its going to happen, doesn't happen often but it does on occasion. It was an example of being in the wrong place at the exact wrong moment. I dont understand why people think someone has to be responsible, sometimes things just happen, I dont know why that is so hard to accept.
Curious Resident July 19, 2012 at 11:57 AM
Narib....The NTSB was called to investigate by the Linder's Family lawyers, not the UP. The UP was using the Federal Railway. I do believe accidents happen and heat was probably a factor. If you see rust building somewhere i.e. the bridge overpass on Willow Road and you live here and know that that the particular spot where the derailment happened had one in 2009 and was closed last year for repairs, you begin to question the people that maintain the bridges. Bridges and maintaining have been an issue for awhile. I feel horrible for the Linder family and went to school with one of the sons. When the NTSB comes....I believe there will be a complete investigation, especially around that area. I think the main concern of the citizens including me, is the old saying...first time shame on me, second time shame on them, the third time...well to me there should not have been a third time. I am concerned for safety...not questioning the heat. We have strange weather in Chicago...we all know that....how can we help as citizens to make sure we avoid the potential death of others in the future. Children, families, bicycles, etc go through/under all the time, especially with The Glen now....let's focus on safety. Is there anything that the UP can do to allow for that bridge to be a little safer? It isn't the first time and if we don't think beyond replacing it won't be the last. Let's focus on what we all are trying to...safety at the Shermer bridge and etc.
Keith July 19, 2012 at 02:59 PM
Christian, Were you at the meeting Monday night at GBN? Did you hear the gentleman in the audience give us a little statistical analysis? He took the number of derailments in our length of tracks, over the number of years in which they occurred, and by ratio, compared it to the miles of tracks in Illinois. I think he said that if the derailment rate in all of Illinois was the same as for our stretch of tracks, IL would be having around 750 derailments per year. His point was that there's obviously something way wrong with our tracks. Tell me, if the heat is the problem, then why weren't there any derailments in any of the commuter rails around Chicagoland, on that same day in that same heat. And yes, I think that if people are at risk and/or dying as a result of a great rail design, which seems to be sensitive to hot climates, then we should seek alternative designs. When the Challenger blew up, they didn't just say "oh well, shit happens".
Christian Hostetler July 19, 2012 at 04:45 PM
Keith, it is not possible to predict exactly where, when or if a sun kink will occur. There are so many variables that have to come together and they just dont happen that often. The challenger disaster cn be pin pointed to one flaw that caused the whole disaster, a different situation entirely. The simple fact is that rail today works just fine. It is not perfect, but it is much safer than the jointed rail of old. The gsituation here was merely a combination of events that hardly ever happen. People seem to think that this is a daily occurrence and it is not.
Curious Resident July 20, 2012 at 11:40 AM
Christian....you are right this doesn't occur daily. However, it has occurred more than one time at that bridge. If you go to the other side of Shermer off of West Lake you'll see a curve that is a sharp S. It is like a blind spot. If I remember correctly, that is where each of the derailments have occurred within the Northbrook/Glenview area. As citizens we can't just go with the theory sh*t happens. Not at this specific spot with the UP. The other thing is...I think we all have to remember that Northbrook residents are raw with emotions. We have had a death of a teacher at GBN, two suicides of young men, one a senior in high school one a recent graduate, another death of a senior at GBN by a car accident, and now we have lost two more community members by a derailment. People of Glenview and Northbrook want answers to why the derailment keeps happening at this particular spot. Accidents are accidents...you are all right about that...unfortunately when a derailment at one spot happens once then it is an accident, when it happens twice then you are thinking what's the problem, when it happens a third time right after that area has been closed for a greater period of time than we were told...then it is no longer a feeling of an accident. Heat playing a role...sure....totally accept it. Carrying that amount of coal that I've heard was too much weight, then I say it was probably an accident waiting to happen especially with the heat factor.
Keith July 20, 2012 at 02:34 PM
Christian, Most of this discussion concludes that heat is the cause for these "sun kinks". Now you're saying that they are hard to predict, that there are so many variables. So which is it? These "sun kinks" aren't random events that just plague us for no apparent reason. They're not just accidents that happen, like a car accident caused by a moment of bad judgement. If heat is the culprit as it affects the continuous rail design, then, as I've said, there's a weakness there, or at least, specifically in the way our section of rail is built. I'm saying that if this is all about heat, then this is no mere unpredictable event. The rails gain (or lose) heat from: 1) direct sun radiation, 2) conduction from the bed on which they sit, and 3) convection from the ambient air temperature. - - - All of these parameters can be closely quantified as estimates of maximum and minimum heat gain, and therefore used in calculations to predict the thermal expansion. In doing this, if continuous rail is characteristically subject to thermal expansion, the amount can be predicted, and alternative designs, to compensate for that expansion, should be employed, even if it only takes a spot of an alternative design, say, every 5 miles or so. But as "Curious Resident" suspects, we could have some sort of problem in the curvey portion of our rail, I think he/she is saying, between West Lake and the bridge. If that's the case, then we're barking up the wrong tree.
Ed60062 July 20, 2012 at 05:00 PM
Keith, If only it were so simple. Yes you can calculate thermal expension of steel but you can't take into account a lot of other variables. Consider a piece of steel that is slightly stronger, weaker, thinner or thicker at a particular spot. A weld that has a slight defect. Consider slight movement of the track bed, a loose spike, a kid putting a rock on the track, intensified sun reflection on a section of track, a strong wind, etc. Consider the myriad of mechanical parts on a rail car that can either fail or cause a freakish movement of the car. Calculations are made and safety factors are built in but you can't account for all possibilities. You're right, when Challenger blew up they didn't say "stuff happens." They took a rational and careful approach to finding our exactly what happened without jumping to conclusions and making irrational accusations. I, for one, hope the true causes of the derailments are found and can be remedied.
David Greenberg July 20, 2012 at 10:42 PM
One potential reason why commuter rail lines experience less derailments? LESS WEIGHT on the rails. Shorter trains. Less locomotives. Overall, less stress on the joints and other parts of the entire system. Commuter trains weight on the order of hundreds of tons. Freight trains? Thousands of tons. There's a lot of friction and heat generated, and add in the factor of the ambient temperature and sun heating, and you get more problems on a Freight line than a Commuter line. Of course there's more factors that come into play, but that's one reason why.
David Greenberg July 20, 2012 at 10:46 PM
If you really want that "bridge" to be safer? you have to close off the part that is open to non-railroad traffic. But even then, I suspect you're going to get people who would climb over the fence and get involved in an accident, so it's never going to be perfect. Or you could make the train go under the road, but even then you can have a host of issues that adversely affect the roadway. And as an aside, this also imperfect solution will have an associated monetary cost. Whether the surrounding community is willing to absorb that cost is another matter.
Keith July 21, 2012 at 03:02 PM
Ed60062, Yes, I know there can be other variables, but in the context of this discussion, people have been blaming the heat. After all, they're called "sun kinks", right? This is why I'm saying the effects of heat can be predicted and designed around. Like I said, If Cont Rail is desireable, then by all means, employ it, but make damn sure that your design is over-designed to take into account all the variations of temp. If you can't take them into account, supplement with a different design. And your safety factor should cover the minor anomolies you mentioned. Next to other engineering problems, believe me, rail design is one of the simpler ones. Derailments from mechanical failures in the train cars are not a part of this dicussion because they are not caused by the CR design. The UP rightly considers those as separate causes. And speaking of over-designed, weren't you shocked to learn that the bridge didn't collapse due to an overload of train cars, accordianed up along its span (which is what I assumed from viewing the aerial photos). Rather, UP says a car, or the cars, somehow knocked the entire bridge structure off its abutment! I would call that under-designed; that the bridge support should never be affected by tumbling train cars. Yes, I agree, obviously. I certainly do hope the answer is found. In particular, the cause for the failures in our stretch of rail, which seem to be inordinately frequent.
Christian Hostetler July 21, 2012 at 06:44 PM
Keith, as I said before, you can predict when a sun kink may happen, but you will never know when and where one is going to strike because there are so many factors that cannot be accounted for, simple as that. I dont see why thats so hard to understand. Keith said: "And speaking of over-designed, weren't you shocked to learn that the bridge didn't collapse due to an overload of train cars, accordianed up along its span (which is what I assumed from viewing the aerial photos)" Uh, ummm, no not at all. Because it has happened before. When you have a 10,000 ton (yes, TEN THOUSAND TONS!) you have an incredible amount of energy (momentum) that has to go somewhere. Get the right angle and the bridge is gonna become a play toy. Even if there are only going 10, they will still pile up and accordian if the train is big enough. Weve gotten 95% of the issues taken care of, that last 5% costs more than the other 95%. Railroads are dangerous, why cant the general public accept that? Whats so hard to get?
Christian Hostetler July 21, 2012 at 06:47 PM
Keith said: "Yes, I agree, obviously. I certainly do hope the answer is found. In particular, the cause for the failures in our stretch of rail, which seem to be inordinately frequent." Lots of trains = more things can go wrong. The statistic about having 750 derailments a year has to assume that every stretch of track in Illinois is as busy as that section which is not true.
Christian Hostetler July 21, 2012 at 06:53 PM
Its terrible that these two people lost their lives, but why do we have to always find someone at fault? Its seems that to a reasonable person who has knowledge about how trains work would understand the combination of sun kink + bridge + 10000 ton train + car being mere chance, its extremely rare for these to all occur together, sometimes stuff just happens and you have to roll with it. To a reasonable person it would not have been forseeable that all of these factors would combine.
Christian Hostetler July 21, 2012 at 07:00 PM
Keith said: "Most of this discussion concludes that heat is the cause for these "sun kinks". Now you're saying that they are hard to predict, that there are so many variables. So which is it?" Ummm, both, duh! They are not mutually exclusive.
Christian Hostetler July 21, 2012 at 07:04 PM
Realistically, the bridge falling is irrelevant. If they had net been hit with the bridge they would have either been hit with a car or would have been crushed by the weight of 100 tons + of coal spilling out of the cars. They simply were the wrong place at the exact wrong moment, its just that simple.
Keith July 26, 2012 at 05:11 PM
Christian, A pileup on the bridge shouldn't be able to bring down the bridge. That is just good engineering practice, regardless of the fatal reality that occurred here. I can think of all kinds of ways for a bridge to be fastened to its abutments, that would prevent it from coming down. Pileups on road bridges, intended for automotive and truck use, don't bring down the bridges. I brought up the accordianed rail cars because I thought readers might share in the amazement, that it wasn't their combined weight that overloaded the bridge; rather, the defective way in which it was attached to it's abutments. I thought you would appreciate that since you've been thinking about loads and weight. The numerous variables you mentioned, that cause sun kinks, are really just one - that is, insufficient restraint, to prevent the rails from moving longitudinally or laterally due to thermal expansion. The loads are predictable; and so is the heat, but if the ties aren't buried into the bed properly, or if the rails aren't attached to the ties good enough, a failure can happen. And there are expansion joints that can be used in areas where rail restraint is dicey. It might just be that the sharp curve "Curious Resident" mentioned, might be making for a dicey situation. There is more friction and heat there, and I would think that lateral restraint of the rails against thermal expansion would also be more difficult in curves.
Christian Hostetler July 26, 2012 at 05:51 PM
Keith, a pileup of railcars on a bridge does have the ability to bring down a bridge. Look up a derailment in Morristown Indiana a couple years ago. Exact same situation, I dont understand why you are having such a hard time understanding this. Your little car weighs maybe 3000 lbs, one loaded coal hopper weighs about 300,000 lbs, and there are probably 10-15 piled up there. You obviously dont understand the concept of momentum being related to weight and speed. If youre going 10mph they are still going to pile up due to the mass involved, cars dont act the same because they are so small and light. Obviouisly you are naive enough to think that the field is the same environment as in a lab: it isnt. Railroad s are dangerous and these things are always going to happen, even with your "vast" knowledge [sarcasm]. Not everything is as cushy as you chicago lifestyle. If you dont like railroads dont go around them. Works out better for us because then we dont get frivolous lawsuits that make our jobs harder.
Christian Hostetler July 26, 2012 at 05:55 PM
Keith: Here you go. So are you telling me that this did not happen and it is simply a figment of mine and everyones imagination. Amazingly it appears that a sun kink caused a derailment which collapsed a bridge, but, no, Keith says thats not possible, so we must all just be stupid. Face it Keith, you know you are wrong, even with evidence for that you probably wont get it. Obviously you dont understand how many thousands of trains run over those tracks without a major derailment, but then again, logic doesnt work with stupid people. http://www.wthr.com/story/15037103/train-derails-in-shelby-county
Keith July 31, 2012 at 04:40 PM
Christian, You said, “logic doesn’t work with stupid people.” I say that stupid is as stupid does. It’s only you who’s slinging arrows and you seem to persistently misunderstand what I write. I didn’t say the pileup couldn’t bring down the bridge. I said it SHOULDN’T be able to. There is a difference. I still say that the bridge is inadequately designed if railcars can take it off its mounts. Regarding my understanding of momentum, I’ll simply say that my call to Greg for his restraint applies to you and for the same reasons. You said that if I don’t like railroads (because they’re dangerous) that I shouldn’t go around them. Well, it’s you who said they’re dangerous in your replies on 7/26, 7/21, and twice on 7/18. It’s you who claims they’re dangerous because at anytime and anywhere, a sun kink can take out a train with no warning, no predictability, and no prevention possible. Under this philosophy of yours, engineers should just give up their trades because mother nature makes everything impossible to analyze and nothing they do will work. You also said, “Works out better for us because then we don’t get frivolous lawsuits that make our jobs harder.” Christian, is the death of two people a frivolous case? You seem to have a liability-related interest in this crash. Why? Just who is the "us" you refer to? I can't help but wonder who you work for... And you're final comments are simply too irrational for me to bother with.
Christian Hostetler July 31, 2012 at 04:57 PM
Keith, thats not the only reason they are dangerous. I work for a railroad and ive seen guys get crushed between two coupled cars because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. One of my best friends broke his back because he was thrown off of a derailing car and landed 15ft down on the ground, railroads are dangerous and the people that work for them are aware of that. Sun kinks only happen when its extremely hot and theres no practical way to predict where they will happen. Did you read the story I posted? it was the exact same situation. I got the inside scoop on that incident and a maintainer doing heat patrols was running about 15 minutes in front of them and there was no problem then. On the subject of bridges, do you have any idea how many rail bridges they are? There are so few bridges knocked off their abutments that it is merely a very rare incident. The railroads dont see it to be practical to alter the basic design of rail simply because they have 1 or 2 derailments because of them, obviously its more expensive so unless someone else pays for it nothing will really change. When the railroads get sued for incidents involving the public new rules are established that really only make management happy and make our jobs more difficult. I have no interest in this crash, I dont work for the UP, I dont neccessarily like the UP, but I dont like to see a railroad get beat up because the general public is ignorant on the operations of railroads.
Christian Hostetler July 31, 2012 at 05:05 PM
Keith, watch this video and you will see the massive amounts of momentum. At the 4 minute mark, watch how the rest of the train, not connected to power, keeps moving along. And this train is only going <10mph. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03Nq632eV6I Then watch this one. Notice the momentum of the rest of the train as it slams into the locomotives. The momentum of railcars is exponentially greater than the transfer of energy in a rear end automobile collision, not even in the same league, train cars pile up easily as speed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WADnriWzJes This is a good photo emphasizing the difference between a car and a train: http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1366&bih=643&tbm=isch&tbnid=97DEVA7sv6uDoM:&imgrefurl=http://autoworld.wordpress.com/2009/02/04/train-collides-with-car-carrying-truck-in-kent-washington-cadillac-dts-damaged/car-carrying-truck-collides-with-train-in-kent-washington-cadillac-dts-damaged-img_1/&docid=hWqingABF6cxUM&imgurl=http://autoworld.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/car-carrying-truck-collides-with-train-in-kent-washington-cadillac-dts-damaged-img_1.jpg&w=608&h=408&ei=JBAYUNiiEoOx8AGolICYCA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=571&vpy=156&dur=395&hovh=184&hovw=274&tx=133&ty=85&sig=106644361506693767579&page=1&tbnh=138&tbnw=184&start=0&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0,i:82

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